Adam:00:01:08For God’s sake, any cognitive or emotional behavioral advice, definitely seek professional advice.

Mike:00:01:13Precisely, precisely what I love is the adjustment bed behind Kevin is awesome. I’m like, get me on that, give me a give me a twist and a crack and a pop, and then send me on my way. I love it. Anyway.

Rodrigo:00:01:24Before Kevin actually gets into his background, you know, the way I met Kevin is I was in a CrossFit gym with his wife. And I got, you know, I do what I do. 150% the wrong time with the wrong form, Mikey would kill me for what I was doing with my cleans. Completely cracked my back. And everywhere I went was like, well, if you can’t fix your back, you got to go to one guy. And his name’s Dr. Kevin Jardine. Who is that. Well, he’s my husband. I couldn’t get a meeting with the guy until I went through his wife. Finally went in. And you know, me and you, Mike and the rest of the team here, we are obsessed with not just investing, but also how to improve our own personal selves, both mentally physically, you know, constantly pushing the envelope. And I thought we were very rare in my group of people until I met Kevin. And Kevin would put us all to shame the stuff that he does on a yearly basis, and the efficiency by which he goes about it. So that physiotherapy session turned into a friendship, that we now go back and forth on all types of both personal and business stuff, and business matters and physical matters and the like. So Kevin, why don’t you take us away? Give us your background and why you’re so difficult to get a hold of when just a regular want to be athlete wants to get some help?

Backgrounder

Kevin:00:02:49Well, that that is probably going to be the easiest question I can answer. It’s because I only work one hour a week.

Rodrigo:00:02:56See that’s what I’m talking about, always one up on us.

Kevin:00:03:00Yeah. You always have to manipulate the supply and demand and make it look like you’re much more in demand than you have supply. And, you know, one thing I would say, Mike is that, although normally your topics are related to investments, when we talk about your health, it’s probably one of the core investments that people should be making in their lives. And it has many principles that are in parallel with investing as far as looking at a return on that investment and how you get paid dividends, and really looking to play kind of the long game, rather than what’s widely available out there now. Are no shortage of experts who are toting, you know, hacks this and shortcuts for that. For me, you know, I’m an ordinary guy with many flaws, even more fantasies, and who still appreciates facts, especially when they prove that I’m right. But, you know, I’m just an everyday guy who has a passion towards health and human performance. And that has taken me across many kind of trajectories in my career where I’ve worked with some of the world’s top performing athletes and individuals, you know, in the business world as well. And I’ve also built numerous businesses, as I’ve gone along, coming up with new innovations and ideas, and put those into a business. And some of them did really well, and some of them took me around the world. And at the kind of tally point now, I think I’ve built six different companies or contributed to building six different companies. And then I sold four of them and kept two. So now I have this unique set of skills where my functional medicine background with my entrepreneurial experience, combined with the aspect around how to win that mental game of life, and combine some of the sports psychology with every day, you know, managing stress has given me a unique advantage that I love working and serving people to help them kind of get better at getting better at life.

Building a Business

Mike:00:05:30Well, that’s juicy, we got lots in there. So what do you think about. I’ll pull one of those threads? From the standpoint of thinking about developing a business to meet a need and identifying that? How do you think you’ve found success? Or what advice would you give? Or what what’s the internal dialogue that comes along with, Hey. I’m, first of all, I’m looking for a potential need to fill, or there’s a need, and here’s how I might fill it. And then here’s a business plan around that. How does that even come to through manifestation? You know, is that just being very observant, internally aware, do you set in advance that you’re looking for these types of things? How did they manifest for you? Because it’s obviously happened several times in your case. So there’s some sort of serial nature to the way that you’re, you know, kind of conducting your life?

Kevin:00:06:29I think there’s many different answers to that, and that I could explore, and ramble on about. But I think, fundamentally, for me, and all of these, you know, these discussion points are based on my experiences, in my opinion. But I think fundamentally, for me, the answer that best describes that question would be that I rarely see problems, I see challenges. And I love challenges, because I love solving those puzzles and those problems. In the same way I love when a client comes in, and they tell me that they’ve been to 10 different people, and they’re not sure if I’m going to be able to help, that’s my favorite client who’s walked in. And from the business side, I think it’s very simple.

Rodrigo:00:07:21Guilty.

Kevin:00:07:22Yeah, Rodrigo, being an example. From the business side, I think it’s very much the same, where I don’t see these things as problems that I’m intentionally trying to pursue a solution for, but there are challenges that come up that with aspects of creativity, or opportunity, or the combination of both of those things. It tends to allow for the creation of a new business. And obviously, coming up with a new business, and having an idea is vastly different than building that business, nurturing that business. And I often describe when I’m teaching or talking about these things, as an analogy around building a fire. You know, and there’s some people that are very good at going out and collecting the firewood, there’s some people that are great at starting the fire. And then there are other people that are typically better at keeping that fire going. And for me, the joy was always in finding the firewood, you know, finding the team and finding the right people. And then building or starting that fire. It’s never been in maintaining the fire.

Rodrigo:00:08:43Right. You know, one of the businesses you built was, or help build with Spider Guard is what is called.

Kevin:00:08:52Spider Tech.

Rodrigo:00:08:53The Spider Tech, which I always thought was a bunch of nonsense whenever I saw those athletes. You know, basketball players, Oh, I got injured, and then they put some tape on their elbow. And I’m like, what type of Voodoo nonsense is this? And who ever came up with the idea of putting something like this together, selling it? And who, what type of person buys this nonsense. And here we are today, you’ve given me a bit of a lesson as to why it works. But you know, how did you, at which point do you read a white paper or you see something like that and say, “this wild endeavor could actually work”. Because you had to have started a business out of from an area that wasn’t already well developed like that, that had to be changing people’s minds from scratch.

Kevin:00:09:42Well, in that particular business, there was innovation that was lacking, and the opportunity really presented itself when I was working with a patient of mine, who is a globally probably unknown industrialist who’s brilliant and creative and comes up with a million new ideas for every day that he’s probably been on earth. And I was working with athletes that I could be seeing and treating on a Wednesday, and they could be competing in Germany on Saturday. And I was cutting different pieces of tape and trying to do things with that tape that I just couldn’t do, because that tape didn’t allow it. And that created the opportunity for Spider Tech. Where it was invented or created to be the same thickness and elasticity as human skin. So the body’s ability to have that tape applied, and for it to stimulate touch receptors on the surface of the skin would blend with the body’s natural sense ability. It didn’t see it as something foreign. And then it just simply triggered the same mechanisms, like if you bend your elbow, the natural thing you would do is grab it and rub it to make it feel better, then that tape would do the exact same thing. And it became a big hit. And then from there, it was finding a how we make it more accessible to both professionals and to the public. So I created all of these different pre cut applications that you could easily take out of a package and apply. And it just kind of took the guesswork and the complexity out of being able to do it to help yourself. And that’s been a central theme for, I’d say all of the businesses I’ve done and my practice style, is I always try to keep who I serve a part of the equation of responsibility. That I want them to be able to do things on their own. I want them to have an understanding of what’s going on. And I want them to be able to access these things in an easier way, because I don’t want it to be only in the corner of trained professionals.

Rodrigo:00:12:15Right. And when you think of entrepreneurship, I think we every time I go to your office or whatever physical improvement I need. You end up giving me tidbits of information. Can you give me your thoughts?

Mike:00:12:36You froze there for a minute, Kevin? Are you still there? Oh.

Adam:00:12:42That happens.

Rodrigo:00:12:43Yep. That Toronto WiFi man.

Adam:00:12:45That’s right. Who so? Mike, have you gone to meet with Kevin as well, like for? What is it?

Rodrigo:00:12:52No, Richard and myself have?

Adam:00:12:54Yeah.

Mike:00:12:56I haven’t … doctors.

Rodrigo:00:13:00Well, well, the thing about Kevin is that every time I go to his office, we end up strategizing on how to improve whatever entrepreneurial challenge we had at any given time. I’d always leave his office with better ideas as to how to run the business that we run today. And so he’s a public speaker as well. And he does a lot of coaching. And so I want to pick his brain on that. Because I think, you know, you see athletes constantly, in every area at a very young age needing coaches. Right. So there, he’s back. Kevin, you hear me now? You hear us? You’re good.

Kevin:00:13:43I can hear ya. I was just a running to pee.

Rodrigo:00:13:46So I was just saying how every time I went to your office, we’d end up brainstorming on how to improve areas of my business. And I’d always end up with key tidbits of actionable items that I could use on a day to day. And I was just saying how interesting it is that athletes have coaching their whole lives. And yet, professionals in anywhere else outside of athleticism tend not to have coaches. And I know that you’re a big proponent of coaching. You’re a big speaker. And in that regard. What role do you think a professional coach should play for entrepreneurs out there? A momentary role to get them started, give them the tools that they need, or more of a traditional athlete type of coach where you constantly need one throughout your career?

Coaching Entrepreneurs

Kevin:00:14:36Yeah, it’s a great question. I think personally, that coaching is a lifelong endeavor that people should pursue, because we’re always trying to enhance our opportunities in life and feel like we’re living life at our best. And I think a coach, a really good coach can help you do that, because there are going to help you widen your perspective or widen your angle on things. The challenge is that there are, you know, there are times, obviously, with an entrepreneur, as there would be with an athlete, that you have a coach that is helping you and guide you towards discovering things about yourself, greater self awareness. But there are also people that have a lot of experience that can also advise or mentor you, as far as how to take out some of the speed bumps on the road of life, whichever road that is that you’re traveling. So in its purest sense, in the personal development world, coaching is about sitting back and asking engaging questions that help lead the individual towards self discovery. Coaching in the athletic world, or even in some cases, in the entrepreneur world, it does cross the boundaries with advising or mentoring or, you know, just sharing experiences that you’ve had in the past. And that’s something that I have to navigate a lot of, because a lot of people come to me, because I’ve had a certain accumulation of experience and knowledge that they want access to, to immediately help them. And I have to find that balance between, you know, giving them opportunities to instantly engage solutions, and finding their own solutions, if that makes sense to you?

Rodrigo:00:16:44And is that type of coaching? Here’s the thing, like, should every professional have a coach? Should that coach be there with them throughout their lives on a weekly basis? Like? What’s your view on the lack of coaching out there for anybody, whether it’s an entrepreneur or professional. Does it work in the same way, does it have the same impact? Or is it just a bunch of like, is the industry a little bit corrupt, where you can just kind of give them the tools and not for somebody to be your professional coach for the rest of your life? Or are you better off in Mastermind groups or the like? Like, what what’s your view on that?

Kevin:00:17:20I think it really depends on the individuals. I think it’s very difficult to come up with an all encompassing answer to that question, because of the individuality of the people and the nature of their businesses or how they need to have people in their corner. And also, you know, the variance for which coaches are created or trained. And you can have very different coaches with very different backgrounds. And I really think that it comes down to an individual case by case basis, and whether or not people are experiencing the results that they want in life. And if they’re not, and they have to change something they’re doing. And often one of the ways to help do that in a more systematic or progressive way, is working with a coach. And I am a huge believer in having coaches, and segmenting them, like you could have a meditation coach, you could have a. – like I was learning how to play squash before COVID. Like every year, I try to pick something new that I’m going to learn that year. And I was learning squash, so I had a squash coach. When I was doing other things like running the businesses that were much more global than what I do now, I had a coach who was helping me navigate how do you open distribution channels around the world, and, you know, what are the nuances about doing business in Asia versus doing business in Europe. But the fundamental thing for me as far as a position if I had to take one, would be that I think coaching and receiving coaching is vitally important.

Adam:00:19:17You’ve obviously had a great deal of experience, both being approached to be a coach. And perhaps I mean, I don’t know, maybe you’ve had a situation where you said, Wow, I’d really like to coach this guy and or girl and reached out and said, Hey, you know, I think I can really help you. I don’t know, but.

Kevin:00:19:36I’ve never done that.

Adam:00:19:40It’s a choice problem, right? Like there’s a wide variety of coaches that you might choose in a domain. And this is a very strong analog to the problem that investors face in a wide variety of conventions. And I think just a problem that people face in general in their lives is you’ve got choices to make, whenever you have to make a decision to go in a certain direction. As a person who has acted as a coach, and who’s received coaching, what are your thoughts on how to improve the odds that you select the right coach for you in a given endeavor?

Kevin:00:20:21Yeah. You know, personally, again, and I’ll add my professional thoughts, both from being a coach and somebody who’s been coached. I think it’s very important to first understand whether or not you are coachable. And whether or not you’re actually going to listen and challenge yourself. Because if there’s one thing that great coaches know, that they should never be, and that is a cheerleader. And not that I have anything against cheerleaders, but they shouldn’t be a cheerleader. They’re there to support and encourage you. But they’re there to support and encourage you to challenge yourself for growth, because that’s where you’re going to experience the benefit of coaching. And some people engage coaching experiences, because they just want the answers laid out for them, and that’s not going to happen with a good coach. And they’re going to engage a coach because they’re, you know, maybe sold on some of the marketing hype that is out there. I mean, we are living through a time where facts are being challenged in unprecedented ways, and that trickles over as well into the expertise, thought leadership market, where there’s, you know, there’s a crisis of authenticity as far as, who do you really know, has the professional merit to be able to help you. And that’s a challenge. So these choices that you talk about, you know, they’re very important. They’re not ultimately binding, as far as ways that you can’t get out, at least with a good coach. Any good coach would not make you have to commit and pay up front. They’re going to do more of an entrance interview to see if you’re the right candidate for them, because a good coach is going to be interviewing you as much as you’re interviewing them, in my experience. And from there, see if it’s the right type of fit. And you go through the process. And sometimes, you know, the process may seem uncomfortable, but that’s the sign that it’s typically a good kind of coaching experience.

Mike:00:22:53That’s actually a pretty good question, what should be the end goal of a coach? And how does a coach know when that goal is met? And I think I would actually even turn that question around as well and say, what should you as a “coachee” be thinking about interviewing coach? How might you go about that? What questions should you ask, what guardrails should you set, and what goals should you set for the coach you might take on?

Kevin:00:23:24Yeah, I think there’s a number of different questions you can ask. I’m a big character and values driven person. So I think having questions around, you know, with a coach, asking them, you know, what are some of your core values that have made up your business? For me, if a coach can’t answer that to you, then it means that they haven’t done a lot of self work and self discovery. So I would challenge them in ways where you’re asking them questions about their discovery, because I think personally, you’re going to look for two things. One is, if they give you some information, you know that they’ve done some work. But also, if they start talking about themselves, and it becomes all about them, that’s not going to be the person that you want to work with. A good coach is going to not get stuck in the weeds, and they’re going to draw you out of the conversation about either, you know, urgency type of scenarios that pop up in your life, or that scenario where you’re trying to ask them questions, they’re going to turn it back on you. But I don’t think there’s a set list of questions that are the ideal ones. I think it’s getting a personal feel for somebody. Entrepreneurs, though, I think need to be very careful, because entrepreneurs will look for somebody that they like, as far as you know, “hey, I feel like I could go and hang out and have a beer with this person”. And it’s the same thing type of trap that they can fall in when they’re looking to hire somebody. And they’ll often hire people that they like, at the expense of hiring people that they need to fill a particular role or void. So, going through and asking yourself, you know, “what do I ultimately want to accomplish”? There’s a great question that that I typically ask that I got originally from a great coach, Dan Sullivan. And it’s the R factor question, which is, you know, I’ll typically sit with somebody and say, if we’re sitting here a year from now, and you’ve engaged in working with me, what has to have happened for you to be exceptionally happy with the results that we’re able to create together. And then I just sit and listen. And it’s a treasure trove of information, because you’re getting to see what success looks like for them. You’re getting to see if they only identify success as a professional endeavor, you know, work and money and different things, whether you know, they’re only in that bucket and silo, or if they’re looking at their life as a whole. And you’re also kind of trying to see if they’re in a moment of impending doom or urgency, like, Oh, my God, I think I’m going to be bankrupt next month, I need a coach. That’s not a good time to have a coach. It’s not, you don’t want to be hanging by a thread.

Rodrigo:00:26:31You need a meditation coach, then.

Kevin:00:26:32Yeah, you need you need someone who can go in there and help, you know, change the course of that ship, but and that might be a coach who has experience in that particular area. But asking that R factor question helps you understand expectations as well. Because in the same way, when I’m dealing with a patient or an athlete, if somebody came into me like a professional athlete, and they said, you know, “hey, I want to work with you over the next year, and I want to become number one in the world”. That’s what success looks like, for me, number one in the world by next year. And I say, Okay, great. What are you ranked right now? Well, I’m ranked like 398. Then I know that no matter what my skills are, that there’s no way that within a one year timeframe, we can bridge that gap. And a good coach is going to really always be looking for, like a good entrepreneur, should always be looking for what’s the gap? Where is the gap in where my clients are, and where they would really love to be? And how do I fill that gap? And then also, where’s the gap in where somebody thinks success is held for them, and where they currently are. And that has been so fundamentally important for my practice, for my coaching, for my businesses, and for my life.

Rodrigo:00:28:01Now, Kevin, you asked me a while into our relationship to do an Enneagram and a Kolbe test. And, you know, we got some interesting results and talked a little bit about that. But what does that give you to help somebody along?

Kevin:00:28:18Yeah, it gives you a great opportunity for self discovery, because every person on this earth has their own version of interaction with the world around them, they have their own version of reality. We may think that everybody experiences what’s going on in this world, with the same lens. And that, you know, it just happens to be that, you know, people see it differently, because they’re not educated or they’re dumb, or, you know, they just don’t get it. But the reality is that reality is unique to the individual that’s seeing it. And the Enneagram is one of the most effective tools that I’ve used, that really helps identify your natural tendencies for which you engage in the world, how you manage processing information, how you would perceive a new opportunity. And when we looked at yours, it puts you in a particular category where you know, you love newness, and everything’s exciting, and you don’t want to miss out on an opportunity. You have fear around missing out. Very.

Rodrigo:00:29:29All right, all right. I wasn’t asking you to. Let’s just talk generally. Okay.

Kevin:00:29:40Yeah, somebody like myself, my, one of my biggest fears is my loss of freedom. So knowing that, I also know that I could never successfully work for another human being on Earth. I have to work for myself, because I need to be driving the bus of freedom for myself. Whereas for other people, they are way more comfortable in the bus knowing and trusting a good bus driver. So knowing what type of person you are, is just another notch on self awareness and self development to help you gain clarity. And mostly.

Rodrigo:00:30:21So you do it for them, for them to start going down that self awareness path, does it help you understand whether they’re coachable or not.

Kevin:00:30:37Not so much if they’re coachable, but it helps me understand how they engage the world. And it helps me understand where some of their challenges might be, it helps me understand that when they are stressed, what type of fundamental patterns of behavior that they could regress into. And it helps create talking points around those aspects of self discovery that they may not have been aware of before. And it can be very enlightening and very kind of freeing for people when they finally go through and they read, you know, their Enneagram. And it’s like, Oh, my God, that is exactly me. And no wonder I do this, or no wonder I’m, you know, always over committing or always feeling overwhelmed, or, you know, I always seem to get in conflict, when it comes to team engagements, it just helps again, go through that process of, of gaining clarity. And I’ve never met anybody yet, with a business problem, a personal problem, or a professional problem that didn’t first originate without a lack of clarity. So it’s probably the first thing that I think people should go for is, you know, really getting clear on who they are, what they want to achieve, you know, that gap. And then they start getting into, you know, aspects around building on that clarity, to take action, obviously.

Rodrigo:00:32:11It was wildly when I saw that I’m like. Yeah, I see a lot of myself, there were a few areas where I’m like, that’s there’s no chance that’s got nothing to do with me. So I asked my wife to do as if she was me.

Mike:00:32:24That’s called denial.

Rodrigo:00:32:25And you know, she did it. She did it as if she was me. And I got the exact same thing and said I was that person. So yeah, it’s pretty accurate thing.

Mike:00:32:31Yeah. So what when you talk about getting clarity of self and clarity of goals? I have questioned of how, what are the some of the goalposts in order to achieve some success? And because that’s really not easy. I mean, sometimes it is, but.

Kevin:00:32:49I think that people over complicate it in that they often assume things like clarity are related to purpose. And then when you have the conversation of purpose, it becomes existential. And what’s my purpose in life is a very big elephant to chew. Not that I’m, you know, animal rights people on there, I’m not advocating eating elephants.

Rodrigo:00:33:15Careful.

Mike:00:33:17It’s a big carrot to chew.

Kevin:00:33:18It’s a big, I know, you get a big, a big fan base of animal lovers. But I think that clarity, a good place to start, because I’m definitely in the applied side, like my coaching is really curriculum based and framework based. I’m not the type of coach who just connects with my people. And then oh, so how are things today? Do you want to just talk about your day? To me, that’s more therapist, not to take anything away from it or coaches who just do that. But I’m more of a framework as far as what are some work book and tangible things that we can go through to help create the skills that you would need to live a more successful life, clarity being one of those skills. So for example, I would often ask people, that in your life in general, if you were at the end of your life, and people were giving a speech about you, or if you had a tombstone that had room for three words on there that would have to sum up your life, what would those three words be? And then go through the exercise of why. And that helps start the conversation. And for example, for me, one of my words would be passionate. I’m the type of person that I’m engaged in the things that I’m engaged in, and I’m all in. If I don’t like doing something, then I’m, it’s very apparent, and I want to live a life, that I exude passion and that I pursue passion. That’s what’s important to me. I want that on my tombstone. And another word as an example, would be thoughtful, both in terms of I want to be a thinking person and use my brain. But I want to be also thoughtful in that I’m thinking about others. And I don’t want my game of life to be all about me. So I would say, starting there, as far as picking three words that describe you at your best, and then writing those down and then filling in, you know, why are those important to you? And then going from there. And when I talk about clarity around achievement, I typically go through kind of a five W process. You know, the first W’s what do you want to accomplish? And that’s really just, you know, what’s the goalpost? Where are you right now, because, again, that helps you identify the gap. You can’t successfully engage in accomplishing your goals, if you don’t know where you’re starting from. And then you get into the other W’s like, you know, when do you want this? You know, who do you need to have help you with this? Because a lot of people are experiencing problems out there, and it’s not a how problem, it’s a who problem, right? It’s who they don’t have on their team. And then you go back to the final, the fifth W, which is circling back to what again, what do you got to do right now to take action towards making that a reality? And then you can even extend that. What, you know, what are the things you need? What are the skills you need to develop? So I use that five W process for pretty much every endeavor that I take on?

Mike:00:36:57And do you suggest that folks think about that, write it down? What are your thoughts there?

Kevin:00:37:02I suggest both. If they of value, they can, they can write it down, they can start implementing and using it. It definitely brings more clarity to whatever you want to accomplish, no matter the size of the goal, whether it’s exponential, or small. The more you write things down, the more likely it’s going to become a reality.

Mike:00:37:26I want to circle back on one thing to just on the coaching side of things. I always find it interesting. I mean, having been coached a long time in athletics, and not having purchased my coach or. Well, I mean, having bought coaches as a professional versus having been coached as a professional. These are very different things. And, you know, there’s coaches out there that I didn’t like, but were very good. And I would, you know, sort of challenge those that are buying a coach. I mean, when you’re paying for the coach, it’s different than when your job depends on the coach’s opinion of you. That brings a lot more tension to the relationship, in a professional standpoint. So in you know, the sport, I played in football, I had a head coach, I had a coordinator for the side of the ball that I was on, and then I had a coach for my position. And you know, you had to make a lot of people happy. And it wasn’t my choice. I didn’t get to tell anybody. I didn’t get to hire the coach, I didn’t get to fire the coach. And so there’s, you know, there’s good coaches and bad coaches in that paradigm for sure. But it’s certainly a very different dynamic than, you know, what I’ve seen in let’s say, boxing or tennis where the athlete picks their coach, not having been in that other side. I mean, maybe you can contrast that how much experience have you had in that, you know, realm where, you know, you’re coaching and you’re appointed as the coach. And that’s that. And then or you’re coaching and being hired as a coach, very different paradigm.

Kevin:00:39:00It is exceptionally different paradigm because you have somebody with a level of kind of locus of control over what they want to accomplish, and then they’re choosing to have somebody coach them through that. In the same way in professional team sports like what you’re talking about with football, you’re a part of a cog, you’re a spoke in a wheel. And the hub of that wheel is not you know, you’re doing, and it just has to roll forward, and they provide you with coaching along the way. That happens a lot in the corporate world where, you know, Hey, we’re going to provide you with coaching. And sometimes that works. And sometimes it doesn’t, because people aren’t opening to the opportunity of being coached on their own. They haven’t made that choice. And in individual sports, yeah, there’s a bit more of the opportunity to determine who you want on your team and who you don’t want on the team. But they’re also you know, they’re looking for particular results, no different than you probably were in football. So you made yourself coachable. I’m sure you weren’t telling the coaches that you’re not listening or doing opposite drills than what they’ve asked for, because you’re looking to achieve a particular result, which kind of, if you follow that thread back leads to motivation, right. And if you’re motivated to change, and you’re motivated to take action on that change, then whether or not a coach is provided for you, or you’ve gone out and sought one yourself, I think that there can be benefit.

Mike:00:40:44Oh, there’s most definitely benefit. And some of the hardest, well, coaches, teachers, I’m sure everyone can relate to the one teacher who was insanely difficult than hard on them, but also made the most difference in their life. And I think that’s the coach that you need to seek, to be quite honest. You need to seek the coach that’s going to hold you accountable to some degree, bust your balls in some way. That is something that you’re going to be very uncomfortable with to some degree.

Rodrigo:00:41:17That’s like going to the gym with Mike.

Mike:00:41:21He’s such an asshole. Oh, yeah. Um,

Rodrigo:00:41:24Oh, yeah. You know what you’re doing, so? Oh, I should come back.

Adam:00:41:28So much in this day and age, though, right? Like.

Mike:00:41:30Yeah, it certainly does. And it thins the herd, right. You know, like you said, Kevin, I work an hour a week, and I work with who I want, and they do what I say, and we achieve goals, and everyone else can, you know, do whatever else they’re going to do. But it’s quite.

Kevin:00:41:45I work more than an hour, that was a joke. I wish I worked. You know, actually, no, that’s not true. I’m the world’s worst bored person. So I have a terrible relationship with restlessness. And even if I won $70 million tomorrow, there’s no way I could ever just work one hour a week, it’s just not possible for me.

Rodrigo:00:42:10So what you’ve been able to accomplish.

Mike:00:42:12How do you help the people out there that don’t follow the protocols and expect to get the care, like how do you help those turkeys?

Coaching Turkeys

Kevin:00:42:19You know, again, I provide a framework for them to help develop skills, consistent skills that have been shown to be able to elevate and improve anyone’s life. And the responsibility is theirs, not mine, whether they engage in the development of those skills. And it’s a starting platform, it’s just like going to university and getting an education. That does not provide the end all of the quest for knowledge. It really provides a platform for learning and learning particular types of information, depending on your degrees. But it’s pretty quick to see which individuals are going to take what you’re doling out, and which ones aren’t. And I’m not very coddling. It’s not in my nature. And I’m not, you know, there to offend anybody or be judgmental. It’s just sometimes people are ready for change, and have committed to it. And if they’re not experiencing the things that they want in their life, it’s because in some ways, they haven’t taken those commitments to fill that gap between where they want to get to, and where they are. And it’s pretty, pretty clear, you know, what people kind of take things on. And in today’s day and age, it’s even, it’s more challenging, I would say, because it’s not a knowledge problem. You can go to any YouTube. You can go. You’re I mean, live streaming right now, you’re getting information, you know, that clarity session doing, you know, the three things that identify you at your best. Coaches will charge you money to do that. And you’re getting it all free on the internet. So it’s not a knowledge problem that we have anymore. Sometimes it’s an overwhelming information. There’s, you know, there’s informational overload syndrome, where it creates an ineptness for action. And none of this, you know, mental masturbation around how do we make our lives better is going to equate to anything unless people ultimately take action on it.

Accountability Coaches

Rodrigo:00:44:33Isn’t that the part of coaching that is most useful for professionals? I found I’ve always had an accountability coach. And sometimes I paid for that sometimes I just pick somebody from the team to make sure that we keep each other honest. Because like you said, all of these frameworks work. Any one of them, you pick one, right? It’s a matter of then executing religiously and relentlessly day in and day out. And unless you are a robot, you’re not doing that day in and day out on your lonesome. You ebb and flow, and there’s good days and bad days good weeks, good months, good quarters and bad months and quarters. I think the role of my coaches in the past is to reduce the variance in those vagaries. Right. So that’s where I find, you know, Mike and I talk about this, where we’re constantly reading and rereading frameworks that we’ve that we’ve all read 20 years ago. And it’s all the same story. It’s all kind of pulling in the same direction. But they’re different frameworks that we’re revisiting to help us maintain the path. Right, it’s like a never ending battle, Sisyphean task to remain on track. And I think coaching consistently plays, consistency plays a big part there. So you talked about the university curriculum, and getting your education, but then there’s this other path, which is the keeping you honest, and keeping you accountable. And I don’t know, you’ve done Mastermind Groups in the past, are those a good option for people? Like, how would you. What do you think about sustainability there?

Mastermind

Kevin:00:46:15You know, I can’t really answer if it’s a good option for people per se. It’s something that they’ll never know, unless they try it. And, for me, I’ve done a lot of Mastermind group stuff. I think there’s, there’s an incredible abundance of value for most people. But I’m very much an introvert and very much an independent person. I don’t feel overwhelmed in life to be able to take on life’s challenges, and I need to seek out other people to help me or I don’t need. And I don’t want this to sound like this is all that Mastermind groups provide, because it’s not. I’m a part of one now that I’ve actually found a tribe that I really like and really resonate with. So it’s been a bit of trial and error. But a lot of the groups that I’ve worked with, there’s a lot of emotional coddling that, you know, it’s hard being an entrepreneur, and it’s tough and I. And that’s just not a part of my personality. So to take time out of my life, to go and sit and listen to the same story, every month, just became apparent to me that that wasn’t going to work out. People love it, right? They love it. And then, you know, I was a member of an organization, that they are heavily structured on Gestalt kind of approaches, and you cannot comment or talk about or discuss things unless you frame it from, “well, in my experience”, and you can only talk about it if you’ve had experience. I got annoyed with that, because I’m in a room with adults that have businesses that have different lenses. And honestly, I don’t really care if they’ve had the exact same experience with me. I want to know what their thoughts are. What are you thinking about the experience that I’m having? So in that situation, that Mastermind grouping or business entrepreneurial grouping didn’t work for me either, because everyone was more preoccupied in my experience with being pseudo psychologists. Oh, you didn’t say in my experience.

Rodrigo:00:48:44You didn’t say Simon Says.

Kevin:00:48:47You know me well enough. It’s not going to go over well.

Rodrigo:00:48:50I know you were like, you’re the exact type of coach. I remember that when you’re like, Hey, you want to start working out? You know, we’ll do a quick 20 minute, classic Kevin Jardine special and I’m like, sure that should be easy 20 minutes. I almost threw up in that first session. He did not let me.

Kevin:00:49:08That’s cause you saw me changing before the workout.

Rodrigo:00:49:12So, I don’t know if you guys have heard Michael Lewis’s latest podcast, but season two is all about coaching. And the coaches that he highlights are just ridiculous, right. I think it’s the classic like sent from Central Casting. You know, my way the highway type of coaches. Yeah. And one of them, who has been coaching, he used to be a very good basketball player. Then he started coaching, he wanted to settle down so he started coaching baseball, high school kids. And he really changed Michael Lewis’s life like just the way he saw the world and in his words. But the last year he’s getting awarded, you know, some sort of like commemoration medal in the school, while at the same time being sued by the parents of the school for being too hard on these kids. Now, after Michael Lewis came to his defense, they all back down, he’s kept his job. But what they talk a lot about is the generation today, this coddling type of generation that simply can’t be coached in the good old fashioned way, that you need the Gestalt approach to coaching. So anyway, I just find that important. And I’ve always been motivated by that type of coach that says, this is the way it’s got to be. And you’re going to do it. And if you don’t like it, you can move on.

Kevin:00:50:38Yeah, that’s a challenging thing, because again, I don’t think it’s fair to polarize in a north and south kind of way. There’s many different vectors that can be spun off of that kind of word, coaching. And it really does come down to the type of individual and the coach, and making sure that they match up and align properly. I do echo your concerns that there is this challenge in today’s environment where people are very uncomfortable with being uncomfortable. And they, if for whatever reason, if they are made to feel uncomfortable, that it’s somehow been a violation of their human rights. And I think that that’s really bad, because many of the things that we will enjoy most in life will come from experiencing those outer edges of comfort, and embracing struggle and embracing challenge. And I fear that they just won’t dip into that enough, or, you know, they’ll dip their toe into the pool, and it’s too cold to get in.

Mike:00:51:50What I always wonder about that is why don’t my feelings matter? Because I’m the hard ass who tells you what it takes to get it done. And your lack of in this case of a person who’s been coddled, the coddling of the American mind is another one. But you know that the idea of participation trophies drives me absolutely bananas. The idea that you’re too soft or offended by the fact that I’m giving you feedback that is directly related to your success, I’m offended. So whatever offense that you’re gonna take, I’ll double it. And I think my feelings matter too in this whole wake/woke world. So, I would say if our feelings all matter, and they all matter equally, then you know, the lack of execution, and the lack of effort offended me as greatly as I’m offending you, whipping you under the squat bar.

Rodrigo:00:52:47Mike has spoken.

Mike:00:52:48If we will, I’m just saying.

Kevin:00:52:53Drop the mic.

Mike:00:52:54Drop the mic. I gotta go. No, no, honestly. So it’s one of these funny things, right? Oh, you’ve offended me because you’re pushing me too hard. It’s like, Well, no, you’re not going hard enough. And that offends me. So okay, so now that we’re both offended, can we get along? Can we get on with the success now? Can we go and get the goal? Or you know, shall we do? I should I coddle you to a point where you know, that you’re not going to succeed? I recall my daughter coming home in grade 10, or 11, with straight A’s. And I said, that is exactly average, you’re average. That’s the. She was like, What. I was like, Well, where do you want to go to school? I want to attend one of the top schools in the United States or Canada. Okay. So everybody who came home with a report card tonight, who wants to do that in your grade came home with exactly your report card? I mean, it’s fine. But is your goal to go to a top rated school or isn’t it? It is okay. That was average.

Rodrigo:00:53:53So Mike hasn’t spoken to his daughter in three years, but he’s hoping…

Mike:00:53:56Yeah, no, I believe. Yeah, my wife yelled at me, my daughter went crying up the stairs. So I think I can do better on delivery. So I did. Thinking back on it, I should have said, That’s really good, but let’s review your goals. And in the context of your goals, what you’re doing is simply putting yourself in a position where you might be able to achieve those goals. And you have to think about that, to keep tension on it. You haven’t gotten anywhere, you haven’t achieved anything yet. The goal is not here. So it would be great for us to celebrate, but if we over celebrate it, it might not be productive to the end goal. And, you know, like.

Adam:00:54:38Mike, from now on, if you’re going to give opinions you need to use the word.

Mike:00:54:45Yes.

Kevin:00:54:47The challenge with that, Mike would be that you’ve accumulated that perspective over multiple decades of experience. And your expectation is that they, your daughter being they, would have that same level of perspective, even though she hasn’t accumulated the experience herself. And the adult brain doesn’t really develop until, you know, mid 20s or so, to really be able to give us that understanding of context and consequence, that what I’m doing now it’s going to have this longer term. So it’s challenging when we’re wise from our years and our experience, and we get frustrated wanting something for somebody else, because we know that it’s best for them. But in their brains and their lens of reality, they can’t see it the way that you do. And unfortunately, it comes across to them, as you know, I’m being judged. And one of the best ways to shut people down as far as shut their brains down and stuff is to have somebody feel like they’re being judged. So it’s a tightrope. It’s not an easy one. And it’s really difficult. But Rodrigo mentioned, the Enneagram and Kolbe, as a test that I like. I don’t hire anybody without going through Kolbe now. And in fact, I think it actually helped me marry my wife. And we’ve been we’ve been married a long time, and I absolutely love my wife, she’s the best pillar in my life. But without Kolbe, we probably would not have been, married because it helped me realize fundamentally that people interact with the world in varying different ways that are not all like me. And it’s not that the world is just like me except dumber. It’s that people are actually thinking very differently. So I would, I’m forever the optimist an opportunist, right. So I would be thinking, you know, Oh, my God, I can’t wait until we can buy a house that has a two car garage and has this type of property and has this and this and this. And I’d be going off fantasizing in my head about what’s going to happen five years from now. And my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time, would be like, well, how much property taxes do you think are going to be? And who’s going to do the lawn? And you know, what’s going to happen with gardening? And honestly, I’d be like, who shit in your Cheerios this morning? Why are you so negative? And it’s not that she’s negative. It’s that her Kolbe type is very detail oriented. And she’s one of those people that, like, we’ve all worked with them. You tell them what to do, like an entrepreneur will be like, I’ve got 30% of the instruction that I’ve just basically had verbal diarrhea, and shat on you go do this, and this and this, and then they keep coming back. Do you want me to do it this way? Sorry, I got another question. And then the entrepreneur is like, I might as well just do it myself. You’re coming back, you’re asking me again and again and again.

Mike:00:58:14Rodrigo.

Kevin:00:58:17And you think that person is not intelligent, but that person is exactly who you need, because as an entrepreneur, it’s very easy to step off the cliff. And that person is going to be like, well, look, there’s a Grand Canyon cliff right here, you might want to look down. And I think it’s important because you’re obviously, Mike, you’re a high achiever, who is principled and driven. So when you see people putting the car in neutral and just coasting, it probably annoys you. And it’s for some of those people, inherently what they’re like.

Adam:00:58:54We should probably focus on the things that don’t annoy Mike.

Kevin:00:58:59Listen, that is one of the biggest. And this is for you guys, as partners, and anybody who’s in a relationship. The biggest predictor of whether or not your marriage or relationship with anybody that you’re with, including relationships in partnership for business, the number one predictor that it will fail, is that you’re starting to focus more on the things you don’t like, rather than appreciating the things that you do like.

Adam:00:59:28Another Chief Compliance Officer role, and that’s not conducive to that. I want to back it up. The most, the most interesting dimension of the last 10 minutes was the fact. I just want to know, at what point in your courtship and how did you broach the idea of, “please take this psychological exam to see if we’re compatible”.

Rodrigo:00:59:53I’m not gonna give you a prenup. I need you to drop some answers.

Adam:00:59:58When contemplating the idea of proposing, would you mind just taking this test for me.

Mike:01:00:06I know how he did it. He framed it as a Vanity Fair questionnaire? He’s like, Honey, I saw this questionnaire in Vanity Fair. Yeah, I think we should do it. He asked her the questions while they were watching TV and got the results, she still doesn’t even know she’s taken it.

Rodrigo:01:00:18I can get Tammy on the line and tell her story. After he tells his version.

Kevin:01:00:24She would probably say the same. I’m a good salesman around things that I believe in. And she, you know, she tickled that itch that I had as far as doing that test. And, you know, it worked out. And we’ve been together ever since, like, 18 years now.

Adam:01:00:42You actually should have known as soon as she acquiesced to taking the test, that actually was the only test that mattered. Fine.

Kevin:01:00:53That wasn’t the only test. I am not gonna tell you the other ones. So it is not the only one.

Longevity

Rodrigo:01:01:00So Kevin, I want to go from the type of, you know, hardcore coaching during the tough things to some concepts of longevity, physical longevity, that you’ve espoused in the past. I mean, first of all, I want to talk a little bit about the gadgets that you’ve introduced. But also your view of working out, like you are a pretty fit guy. You know, you’re pretty strong, you get a lot done. But you get a lot done in a short period of time, we’ve always talked about.

Kevin:01:01:30This is for all your viewers.

Rodrigo:01:01:33Is that go muscle or show muscle guns.

Kevin:01:01:36That’s both.

Rodrigo:01:01:40That’s right. Now, as we get older, you kind of espouse the idea of kind of taking the throttle down a little bit. Mike keeps on doing these feats of strength every year, with an insane amount of weight and always trying to. How old are you now, Mike.

Mike:01:01:55I don’t want to say.

Rodrigo:01:01:57You look 36, but he’s a bit older than that.

Mike:01:01:5953.

Rodrigo:01:01:59And he’s still pushing the envelope. I keep, you know, reminding them that, you know, we got to be careful as we get older. How do you think about aging? And, you know, being able to have a better health span, over time, and what tools do you espouse on them?

Kevin:01:02:15Yeah. I mean, you’re the advice of happy to take it easier as we get older, obviously, you cannot extinguish your own bias around that, because you’ve had some challenges with the back and stuff like that, where maybe Mike does not I don’t know. I can say, like I would correct you on me taking down the throttle. It’s not that I’ve taken down the throttle, it’s that I become more efficient with intensity, and more focused on just quantifiable results, that helped me determine that I’m staying in the shape that I want to be in. And that changes as time goes on. Like when I was competing in CrossFit. I had particular goals, and I had to acquire skills that allowed me to do that. But because of my medical background, I personally believed that was not a long term solution. You know, a lot of those movements, I’m not a big fan of overhead barbell work. I’m not a big fan of back squatting for people that have had, you know, knee or back issues. I know, I’ll probably take, you know, shit for that from a lot of other people. But just in my experience, I think you can accomplish what you want by using other things that get you the results, but don’t wear and tear and break you down. Longevity is, I mean, that’s again, that’s a huge topic. What I would say is that you’re you, individuals, as far as I know, you and probably if your audience is very similar, they’re going to have a competition between growth and longevity. And if you’re trying to maximize growth, then you’re going to dip into aspects of longevity. And if you’re trying to maximize longevity, then you’re going to potentially hinder your ability to, you know, to experience growth or the some of the vitality that you can have from growth. And I think that as people get older, they should be a little bit more strategic with how much protein they take in, like actually knowing the number. And as they get older again, they should probably divide their protein up between plant sources of protein and animal sources of protein. I’m a big advocate of animal protein. I think unless you have ethical or other religious reasons not to eat it, it’s unparalleled with its ability to provide the body with nourishment. But again, I think you can achieve your protein intakes without that if you choose not to. But I don’t believe that as you get older, you should be consuming twice as much protein as what your body needs. I think that that can have a negative effect on your ability to maximize longevity, and I think the science and the evidence really points to that.

Rodrigo:01:05:43Now your workouts that we’ve ever done, I’ve never been past 20 minutes, but they.

Kevin:01:05:47That’s because you’re out of shape.

Rodrigo:01:05:49Come on with this. Are you kidding me? Word? You’re barely keeping up with me. By the end of it, I was crushing you. It’s okay.

Kevin:01:05:59No. My workouts, obviously it’s about maximizing, again, the results. I think that Martin Gibala, you know, one of the world’s leading experts on intensity would agree, you know, that aspects around our beliefs about exercise that they have to be an hour, like, Oh, I got to go to the gym for an hour. If you took a poll of people and ask them what’s you know, how long do you need to exercise when you go to the gym? It’s an hour. And that’s based on personal training billable hours, not based on generating, you know, tangible results. And we can go in and have an excellent workout in 20 minutes. Yeah, but are all my workouts 20 minutes? No, I work out pretty much every morning with a client of mine that I’ve trained with for 10 years. He’s in his 70s. He’s got abs, I’ve taken him to climb Mount Rainier, I’ve taken him to do the Grand Canyon rim to rim, and he’s in phenomenal shape. And our workouts are an hour, but we do, you know, probably 20 minutes of good warming up and activation stuff. And then probably 15 minutes of what would be considered a very intentional, intense, targeted exercise.

Rodrigo:01:07:31Yeah, and you also vary what you do. I mean, some of the frameworks that we discussed is this idea of, you know, working for strength, working for cardiovascular improvements, and not doing too much of the hardcore hit every single day. That could be.

Kevin:01:07:54That’s not sustainable, in my belief, for the average person, if your job is to be a high performance athlete, then yes. And if you’re, you know, in your 20s and full of piss and vinegar, and hitting the gym, you know, and then going home and sleeping in your parent’s basement, maybe. But for the majority of your listeners, that’s not sustainable, and it’s not efficient. And it will backfire at some point. And if it hasn’t already, because I know that there’s going to be people, Well I do that, and it hasn’t been a problem. Well, then I would go back to one of the most fundamental, true statements of all times, and that is that a problem is never a problem until it’s a problem. So it’s only a matter of time. And for me, you know, I love unconventional strength training, I love sled pushes or walks with weighted vests or sandbag stuff, things like that, that are that are really good. And then I avoid things like barbell overhead work and stuff like that to protect and preserve my shoulders. I think, for your audience, probably the most important takeaway from a conversation around fitness and stuff like that would be differentiating between adaptation and exertion. And a lot of people go to the gym and they work out, and they’ve exerted themselves, and they’ve probably cannibalized some calories, right. But if they’re not doing things with understanding what their strengths are, and doing it in a progressive, logical way, they’re not going to experience adaptation. In the same way when you’re talking with your clients about investing. If they’re trying to do you know, micro share trades and trying to beat the market on these little things here and there and not having a bigger vision, then it’s more exertion versus adaptation. Adaptation, being really generating wealth over the long run. So that would be the most important kind of message that I would want them to think about. Do they have a plan? Do they understand how to quantify their results? Do they know how many pushups they can do in one minute? And then have they been trying to beat that? Or are they using it as a benchmark for am I staying in shape? Right? So understanding how to make sure that they’re engaging adaptive principles versus just exerting themselves.

Mike:01:10:37It’s like those clear goals. Identify the gap, know where you are. I mean, it really comes back to the same coaching principles you talked about earlier. And I think there’s a, Dan John as a concept as there’s park bench workouts, and there’s bus stop workouts. And you should think about that as you progress through the year. So I, we do a thing called Feats of Strength every December 23^rd, we’ve been doing this for a long time, we go back and do our max lifts again. And over time, they go down. But they go down ever so slightly, and then I go and do other stuff. And I do some spit puke, and some, you know, Metcon, and those types of things. But every year and that quarter of the year, and you can think about it in quarters of the year, what are you going to work on this quarter, you had a big focus period, do you want to take some time off, let your body heal, but stay physically fit, work on different types of exercise, or different pathways that you’re going to be emphasizing through your workouts. And by doing that every quarter sort of taking time to think about it and switch it up a little bit. First of all, you stay involved, you stay mentally engaged. And you have this, you know, kind of cross pathways of a number of things that you’re doing that continue to maintain strength and test that, you’ve got a goal, you’ve got an end date, you know, nothing motivates like a deadline. If you don’t have a deadline, if you’re not going to run a marathon, you know, people who run marathons when you book that marathon, then you better train. When we do feats of strength, and we’re going to go for a 45 kilometer hike. I got my size, I better train better get ready. And there’s consequences. So providing yourself the consequences to build the deadline helps with training, what’s the word I’m looking for? The ability to stick to your plan, the ability to show up every morning. Right? It creates that tension of urgency and accountability to it. Thanks. Yeah.

Rodrigo:01:12:28Schwarzenegger is a big fan of always having something that he needs to be prepared for, his whole life, whether it was a role or an event, like he talks a lot about every quarter, he’s got something that he needs to accomplish, or else he won’t do anything. So even the champ, even the one of the guys was achieved the highest levels in bodybuilding, is still doing that in a quarterly basis. So I like that.

Kevin:01:12:55Well, deadlines are by far the most effective productivity hack of all times.

Rodrigo:01:13:01I don’t know how you pull this off. But every time, every other week, you’re doing a hike somewhere. So was part of the Kolbe test, “will you Tammy allow me to leave for four months out of the year”?

Kevin:01:13:15That keeps me from incarceration, because my Enneagram type, I can be very aggressive. And my wife calls it feeding the beast. So I need to get out. I need to go out and exert myself to extreme levels, so that I can function effectively in society. It really, there’s a lot of truth to that, for sure. But you know that that whole deadline thing in a very morbid way. I’ve often looked at my own life, because unfortunately, I’ve lost my father at a young age. And I lost my father in law, who was one of the greatest men I’ve ever had the opportunity to meet. He was very young. So I kind of keep in my mind like, Okay, live your life, like you’re only going to live to 60. And what would you do? So it makes me have a certain level of expediency towards wanting to accomplish things that I want to, not wanting to accomplish things for the, you know, the unfillable void of enough is never enough, or just to accomplish things for the sake of it. But really thinking about what are the things that fill my bucket as far as fulfillment, service and happiness. And it makes me think about them on a shorter timeline than thinking I’m going to be here forever.

Rodrigo:01:14:42Yeah, those are awesome “words to live by”. I certainly have my calendar, how many days I’m going to remain on this earth that I stare at every morning to let me know. When you see those little squares, one at a time being ticked off, you’re taking advantage. So let’s move. I just want to finish it off with, we talked a little bit about coaching, we talked a little bit about longevity. Recovery is an interesting thing as well. I know you have a sauna in your house, and it was just curious to talk a little bit about the benefits of heat and cold water. And then I want to cap it off with the machine that you had me on at the end there, that was pretty fantastic as well. But what are your thoughts on recovery tools, and the like?

Recovery

Kevin:01:15:31Yeah, well, recovery is really kind of the new frontier of sports science and physical medicine. It’s one that hasn’t been focused on enough. And kind of the introductory part of it was really looking at nutrition as it relates to helping individuals recover from stress and post stress. And now, I think because people and athletes, as a specialized sub segment of people, are pushing themselves harder than ever, you know, people are challenged with longer work hours, more stress. You know, look at COVID and mental illness, it’s becoming more aware that, you know, humans have this cycle where they need some downtime, they need some off time. And then the sports scientists, and the really smart people out there kind of take that a step further. And they try to find ways that can enhance that recovery in more specific ways, either advancements in nutrition, or, you know, cold and hot thermogenic, kind of contrast training and therapy. Things like PEMF, the pulsed electromagnetic field device, like the thing that you were referring to. There’s lots of different things out there that people can do. The number one thing happens to be completely free and accessible to every single human on this earth, maybe in varying degrees. I shouldn’t say that it’s accessible to everybody. But it would be sleep. That’s the number one.

Adam:01:17:07I thought you were gonna say Happy Hour.

Kevin:01:17:10Yeah, that too. Yeah. Which is true, no happy hour would play a role because we have the social construct around that, right? Like, I’m definitely not somebody who takes extremes, like, you should be eating broccoli for breakfast, and never have a drink. I have a love affair with bourbon. Like, I love it. And I think it’s great for people to be able to have that clock to punch and be able to relax and maybe slow things down. A lot of your audience probably uses a drink at the end of the day to kind of slow down their thinking, and really allow them to just be more comfortable with being restless, like I do. And, you know, the sleeping part is, all joking aside, it is the best way that we can enhance recovery. It’s the best way that you can protect your brain. And it’s again, free. From there, yes, I’m in a sauna probably three, four times a week. I love it. Because it challenges me mentally and physically. Like, how long can I stay in that thing? And then I do a lot of my meditative and contemplative work in the sauna. And then I do a lot of sauna to cold plunge, because I have my own ice machine at home. And I.

Rodrigo:01:18:39He’s got the dream, Mike. He’s got all the specs we need when we’re ready. Yeah, we miss our Banyo in Toronto.

Kevin:01:18:47Yeah, I love it. It’s very again, it’s very therapeutic for me. But it’s not going. I can’t say it’s going to be therapeutic for everybody, because there are some people out there that that would stress their system to a point where there is no return. And there’s an argument that can be made that it will help them develop resiliency. Because when I teach my lectures on resiliency, my very first slide is a question. And that question is what makes things in life easier. And then the next slide is the answer. Doing other things that are harder. That’s the easiest way to make things easier. So if you are hardening yourself by enduring challenges, like being in the sauna, or being in a cold plunge, then when you endure other hardships, you will probably be able to do so with greater resiliency. But the recovery side, you know, you’re getting into physiology and physiological mechanisms like vaso-dilation and blood flow. You’re getting into mechanisms of stem cell production and all kinds of interesting things that are going to have a benefit, vascular dilation, whether or not that leads to longevity, like some of the studies out there that people like to tout, about using saunas show, my comment on that would be, I wouldn’t jump so quickly in that group, just because there’s probably a very large selection bias for who actually has a sauna in their house. That those people who can afford it are probably going to live longer, anyway than the people who aren’t. I don’t know for sure. I’m just saying you have to be a critical thinker when you are looking at some of the research and not just jump on the bandwagon. And then, you know, other aspects of recovery, taking time off, you know, taking a day off, going out and enjoying nature, the world’s greatest pulsed electromagnetic field, and spending time in contact with the earth. It’s an old Ayurvedic medicine kind of remedy for people who are experiencing insomnia, and people that are restless at night and just can’t sleep, they go, and they sit in contact with the earth for 20 minutes. And it can have a significant impact on your mood and your ability to sleep. And now science has taken that, and they’ve amplified that in new advanced machines that are things like pulsed electromagnetic field therapy, where you know, your basic cellular function, like all of our bodies are made up of billions of cells, those cells function at an optimal frequency, just like a radio is best heard or radio station is best heard when it’s right on the frequency. The more you deviate one way or the other, the more noise comes in, and distorts it. And as we age, we go through cellular degeneration, that’s aging. And as we get injured, or as we build up an accumulation of what’s even more problematic in today’s day and age with the advent of 5G is dirty energy in our bodies, from computers, cell phones, all these things. And when people use pulsed electromagnetic field devices, it bathes the body in that ideal frequency that it loves to function at. And the more you can get the cellular structure functioning at that optimal level, the more you’re going to enhance things like cellular regeneration and recovery.

Rodrigo:01:22:59Some of the research that I’ve done after you told me about it, I started using it. Some of the research that I read was bonkers, just particularly on recovery from bone fractures. Yeah, how quickly you can at, once you you’re under the machine versus when you’re not what you what can actually occur in terms of healing. It’s pretty remarkable. So whoever’s listening out there, like do some research on that, and go all the way down the rabbit hole. It’s fascinating, and they’re going around, I’ve seen them. Every major city has places that offer that type of technology.

Kevin:01:23:38Well, they’re more accessible now. And then on all of these major kind of podcasts that have prominent athletes on there, like LeBron James and stuff, they’re all talking about using devices like this, to accelerate their recovery and enhance their ability to perform. And it’s a main staple now in those high performance environments, and it’s something that the everyday individual can also benefit from, because it is as far as energy medicine goes, it is the top of the food chain.

Rodrigo:01:24:14Fantastic. All right. Well, Kevin, thanks so much for doing this. I know I’ve been bothering you to get on for about a year now. Finally accepted my invitation. We are looking forward to hopefully having you again. Soon. Maybe we could go for a hike and do something live there.

Kevin:01:24:35Yeah, that’d be fantastic.

Rodrigo:01:24:36Get the team going and do some sort of rim to rim type of work. Yeah, maybe you can join us at the March For The Fallen, which is the quant hike that we do –  28 mile hike with a lot of people in the industry next year.

Kevin:01:24:50We’ll call it rimming the team.

Adam:01:24:53Yeah, I was reacting to that.

Rodrigo:01:24:55Adam was looking at him the whole time.

Kevin:01:25:00You can have your own field day if that’s what you’re going to call it.

Rodrigo:01:25:05Awesome, Kevin. Always a pleasure, my friend.

Kevin:01:25:08Nice meeting you guys.

Adam:01:25:08You too Kevin. Thanks.

Rodrigo:01:25:10Have a great weekend. Cheers. Bye bye.